Jungle Trolls Reborn

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HunDoSlavus
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 14th 2012, 07:45

It would be cool if you stayed next to a Hunter's Tent, you would be invisible. It's a good hiding place if an enemy troll passes by and you have it in the corner, but you have to sleep to turn invisible...

Also I had been thinking of a new transport item. A Wagon. The wagon is crafted in the Inventor's Workshop and requires 3 wood, 1 rope and a tortoise shell. It moves fairly slow and has no vision so a troll has to be near it to control it. A mechanical antelope that is, just without attack and gallop :3

I am just not sure about inventory slots for it. Dunno if it should be 4 or 6.
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PostSubject: balance improvement   March 15th 2012, 06:18

Hi again.

I really would like this game to be more balanced and competetive and I think there are some drawbacks in balance.

Inventor: Now there is clearly no counter to inventor with net and molotov coctail. Molotov maybe an expensive item, after crushing a simple rock (1/2 of day) you can gain over 30 gold which is sufficient for this item. Net>>molotov and any troll is dead which is rediculous. And besides that inventor can through bombs then poison gas then shoot and use bone cub and chainsaw and repeat. And I didn't even mention siege machine which blows troll with a couple of shots. Actually inventor wouldn't have much trouble killing a troll with 1000 hp with all this stuff.

Shaman: the blow pipe of shaman is almost useless. You need to get antelope horns and fish bone which makes it not the easiest item to make and then you get only a 20% chance to paralyze and add a poison buff. I think it's not worth even an inventory slot.

Hunter: hunter has lot's of stuff to through and use as well as inventor does. He throughs
-net
-javelin
-bone cub stun or just an axe
-bow shot
-poison gas
-attach with eagle from above
-attack with other pets
And all of this is easy to make and not expensive

Warrior:
-bone cub
-javeling/axe
-jump with microstun and 20 damage
-and his close comban attach of 10-20 damage per hit which is not really an imba.

I think there are some ways to improve the balance - something like these fixes:

- make shared cooldown for javeling and bow or don't allow hunter to take javelings or axes while holding bow.
- decrease net duration for trolls to 2-3 seconds and make it a class item so only hunter can use it
- make shared cooldown to poison gas, bomb, molotov, net.
- make at least some bonus damage to iron axes so they would be usefull - cuz now only use of double axes is cutting trees (bone cub is way too much better for all combats)
- make bone cub class item so that only warrior could use it
- make a 1 sec delay for poison gas before it starts dealing damage (it has to spread in the air first ^_^)
- rework grenades - so they would add a knoback from the center of explosion insted of stuning and perhaps 1-2 sec slow as a buff after exploding
- spirit could automaticly pick up items left upon death so that it wouldn't be a game "who clicks faster" to steal items

And maybe it would be interesting to add meditation ability which would allow shaman to enter the world of dead while sleeping and not awaking until his spirit returns to the body meanwhile you could control spirit to gather/steal some stuff or do whatever the spirit is good for.

So please think about these and thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 15th 2012, 08:39

stjerry wrote:


My answers in bold

- make shared cooldown for javeling and bow or don't allow hunter to take javelings or axes while holding bow.

Already suggested. But javelins and throwing axes are accesories, which is why they can be carried along. They still need to be changed though.

- decrease net duration for trolls to 2-3 seconds and make it a class item so only hunter can use it

No thanks. Don't ruin the one of the only ways you can catch trolls as a warrior.

- make shared cooldown to poison gas, bomb, molotov, net.

No thanks. Maybe Poison gas and molotov, but not bomb and net.

- make at least some bonus damage to iron axes so they would be usefull - cuz now only use of double axes is cutting trees (bone cub is way too much better for all combats)

Axes have more crit chance and I am not sure if you can dual wield clubs.

- make bone cub class item so that only warrior could use it

No thanks. And it's a club, not a cub. You can't limit a simple club to one troll.

- make a 1 sec delay for poison gas before it starts dealing damage (it has to spread in the air first ^_^)

Could work.

- rework grenades - so they would add a knoback from the center of explosion insted of stuning and perhaps 1-2 sec slow as a buff after exploding

Inventors gain the sapper achievement so there is no need.

- spirit could automaticly pick up items left upon death so that it wouldn't be a game "who clicks faster" to steal items

No more scripts that do not really benefit a lot, please.

And maybe it would be interesting to add meditation ability which would allow shaman to enter the world of dead while sleeping and not awaking until his spirit returns to the body meanwhile you could control spirit to gather/steal some stuff or do whatever the spirit is good for.

Cool shit. Me like. But where would you have the spirit world...

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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 15th 2012, 14:32

HunDoSlavus:

Ok I guess I was not clear enough. Let's take a look at the damage you can deal with each hero using all the stuff you can make:

Hunter
-net 4 sec disable
-javelin/axe - 30/40 dmg+crit
-bone club (30dmg+2sec stun) or just an axe (40dmg+microstun)
-bow shot 50dmg+microstun+poison(10% slow + 50sec dmg 1-3)
-poison gas (at least 20 dmg taken)
-attach with eagle from above (up to 100dmg + 1sec stun)
-attack with other pets
And all of this is easy to make and not expensive
//Everything is used by cd and total:
stun: 7 sec and 2 microstuns.
1 instance dmg: 40+30+50+20+100=240 dmg + 50-150 dot damage + other pets
// you can't kill anyone instantly but using hide pets or your dog disable you can kite run and kill and don't let anyone get really close to you and use you invisibility.

Shaman:
Maxing shaman dps:
- book of lightning: 75dmg
- lightning staff: 75dmg
- blow pipe: 50-150 dot damage
- Weather achievement + rain = 33% + 75 lightning damage
- net 4 sec disable
Add a voodoo form and you can kill any troll on sight (exept warrior running out on low hp under poison)
Total: ( 75 + 75 + 75 )*1.5 = 337.5 dmg + 50-150 dot damage
The real damage is lower though - I guess there is some natural magic resistanse about 25% making max instant damage about 250
stun= 4 sec net is more than enough
Anyway shaman can kill on sight

Inventor:

-net
-club (30dmg)
-bomb (50dmg + 2 sec stun)
-harpoon or lightning cub (at least +50dmg)
-rifle (at least 50 dmg)
-poison gas (let's say 20 at least)
-molotov (with 6 sec stun deals at least 140 dmg)
Total dmg: 30+50+50+20+140=290 dmg
Total stun: 4+2+2=8 sec
Kills on sight
Actually net rifle and molotov is enough to kill on sight anyone - even 300 hp warrior after being stuned and damaged with his club.

Warrior:
with club
-net
-big bad bone club (50dmg=2sec stun)
-javeling/axe (up to 40dmg)
-jump with 1 sec stun and 20 damage
-club 10-20 dmg 15 average, 1 hit per sec. 8*15=120 it's maximum
Total: 50+40+20+120=230 max damage in 8! SECONDS of close combat
Stun: up to 8 sec
with axes you gain x2 attack speed and +100% crit but loose 2 sec stun and 50 club damage which makes them useles cause you would be lucky to make 4-5 hits before stun locked and killed.

Warrior can't kill on sight and is easily kited. Without net with any weapons and his jump he will do maximum 100 damage considering armor and crit reduction and then he would get killed very fast by any class.

I did not even count that bows and rifles can should at least 2 times while target is disabled and didn't count pets of shaman and hunter and siege machines of inventor.

Considering this I think net is overpowered item that should be in the inventory of any class to survive and kill effectively. And warrior despite his armor and weapons can't kill anyone instantly and is easily kited. His pro cast 230 calculated damage is dealt in 8 seconds in close combat and could be countered by allies pets machines, voodo form and any disable. I did not count criticals but I did not count power attack and armor dmg reducton as well. Still warrior can kill other classes if it's an early game and prey would not have allies nearby. But in the mid game he can be killed on sight just like any other classes and has to engage in close combat as an initiator sacraficing his life.
Btw double axes are only usefull for cutting trees - not even close with bone clup with at least 30 damage 2 sec stun and chance to stun for 1 sec.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 15th 2012, 17:31

Btw I think you are mistaking bomb for grenade. There's a huge difference.

There's not much to do about JTR balances. Generally Gadina just wants good gameplay, but that falls to the imbalances. It will change in time, hopefully.

I understand your calculations and your concerns, but right now I can't seem to figure out how to balance it even more out.

I think of less stuns and more slow and possibly knockback. This would not leave you completely helpless in melee range.

The range on bows and guns just need to go a bit down. I know it's fun with 1200 sniper gun range, but it's able to get sick crits and just by getting vision, you can snipe bases to death.

And now that I think of, making net a hunter class item could be a choice. Generally the hunter needs to be changed abit. Mostly concerning his bows and his hawk and dog. Dog used to be the most used, then Hawk was new meta because of the vision with longbow combo.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 15th 2012, 18:43

I agree about the Hunter being (sometimes) better than other classes, but only in the hands of a skilled player. I'd say it is the most difficult class to play. The hawk-longbow combo requires much control, so it is with the armies of animals. Honestly, I cannot play hunter, his tactics is way too complicated for me : ))

I disagree about the warrior being weaker than other classes. It is all matter of tactics and play style. Some people say he is overpowered and needs to be nerfed... I disagree on that too.

The net duration was decreased. I'm thinking also to decrease the critical stun to 2 sec, but to increase the chance to 20%.

Anyway, these are small things. Greater improvements and some of the bugfixes are wasting far more time. For example there is the following idea: instead of taking the fully dead players out of the game and granting them visibility over the map, they could be turned into special animals. You may have the choice of beast species, become a single unit hostile to all, and a use a simple system for getting level by kills and feeding.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 15th 2012, 22:30

gadina_prokleta wrote:

Anyway, these are small things. Greater improvements and some of the bugfixes are wasting far more time. For example there is the following idea: instead of taking the fully dead players out of the game and granting them visibility over the map, they could be turned into special animals. You may have the choice of beast species, become a single unit hostile to all, and a use a simple system for getting level by kills and feeding.

Epic idea right there, Gadina. You just broke creativity's boundary. Smile

I wanna be a cool rat family then infecting a troll village with plague.

But what if your family/beast dies out?

Perhaps it could be limited. You could either be a Sabretooth pack, a bear, a rat family, a crab family or an aligator. You should not be able to breed with big animals since then you could just make 10 bears hehe.


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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 16th 2012, 00:08

It's not my idea, but I also think it can be productive.
To evade abuses I'd make the troll as a loner animal, with no chance of reproduction, but with possibility to gain levels and become stronger killer or faster resource thief.
Every "totemic reborn" troll should have his own hidden den which would spawn him upon death. The animal should be able to build another den if the other was destroyed, but if both the animal and the den are destroyed, really end of game (an end should be put somewhere).
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 16th 2012, 21:24

Balance improvement makes game competetive and challenging - it's not small things. The game is allready interesting so now it should be a priority. My friends and I want to play competetive trolls - to learn how to play better, grow faster and win the game. I want to learn how to play different classes and make different strategies to compete with other players, but that won't make any sence unless you make balance fixes from time to time and develop these 4 classes.
Dota actually became popular only because the game was made competetive and balanced - that what makes this game much more interesting than other 3 corridor games - because it is challenging.

If you gonna change only cosmetics of the game and add some interesting stuff that does not have any actuall use while competing with other tribes - then this won't make much difference.
I'm not sure about everyone, but I don't play this game to kill bosses, to go fishing, build big city and reach day 60 exploring the whole map.


P.S. I don't think that hunter and shaman is really imba. But inventor is for sure using simple combo net->molotov->dead troll.
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PostSubject: Class balance   March 16th 2012, 21:29

Honestly I find the classes pretty balanced in their functions, thanks to the nerf in Shamans spellbooks really every class. The nerf with the net is ok, I didnt have a real problem with the duration, although it got me killed more than once. I can undestand most peoples problem with that.

Well about the damage output, your math is basically correct. But you have missed to consider impotant key factors like armor, health, attack speed and abilities.

For example Warrior:
Warriors stance is a useful speed buff negating any speed disadvantage he had in early game.
The amount of armor, he can get quite fast and easy, with his 250 starting health (310 max.) makes him perfect for tanking. Sure he has basically the same attack speed as every other troll but dual wield doubles that from 2.00 to 1.00 with 50% chance to crit 2.5 times. Even if you are not using dual wield the ability to be the only class to really effectively use the shield makes him REALLY strong vs any other troll class if you use the right equipment.
You can easily level up stance before you hit level 5 by killing 20 animals, rats and piranhias are the cheapest way to get there. Level 3 is achievable close to level 9 -10, just keep in mind only direct kills count.

I wont go further into the requirements for making a final build, because compare to the other 3 classes with 3 buildings he is definetly the fastest next to hunter to get these. so his low runspeed at start is really justified, later in game 10 -20 ms dont really make a difference especially if you use Haste and Leap.


Hunter:

How do you get 100(!) damage with hawk?
Did I miss something there?

Spear (level 3) has a much higher damage output than club or axe, especially when it's poisoned.

Tarantula poison is pretty strong, but there one major downside - it's pretty rare, there are normally only 3-5 units in the whole game, considered the new random spawing system - only the noob deathtrap to the east is a certain source. This is a little imbalance I've found with Tribe 3, there should be a dud version of spiders just like with the anacondas.

With only one main building hunter is the class that can get a final setup quite indipendent from main buildings, but the downside to that is the dependance on luck and exploring you have to do to get your gear. That requires time and good memory/timing.


Shaman:

Definetly the weakes class from start, and it keeps that even in late game. Only way to play him as DD is with 2-3X Lightning (book, Arcanum, staff), the only way to get the God's Favorite achievement to directly hit your foe is leveling it up (3) and playing 1 on 1 which is still a lucky hit then. Although either Arcanum of Light (hex) or Shadow (invisibility) are more effective for evading an enemy IMO. But that will limit you to 2x Lightning, even if you use Voodoo scriptures for offence, your inventory is getting really stuffed up and you ll lose the blow pipe or the net.
To build that you need 5 manastones, 5 oil, merchant, forge, workshop, 3 feathers, some gold for herbs , trading agreement and 2 hides and last but not least voodoo hut.
Additionally a level 3 Antilope for the Sacarabane/Blow Pipe.
Yes you can do a hilarious amount of damage that way, but then you have to wait 30 seconds for 3 of the spells to cooldown. This whole thing is only working if you play 1on1 and really have enough time to build all that stuff. Other than warrior, the other classes can rely on long range too.
Warrior has to be a bit more cunning to get into close range, i.e. flee around a corner and leap back onto you. That stun is mostly enough to get you down to 50-60% HP before you can cast anything, with throwing axes or other stuns/ microstuns you are pretty much head to head with your spells and his damage output.
Spells deal Power Hit damage thus they are reduced by Tortoise armor, masks and shields. This is one of the advantages warriors can use over the other classes, like mentioned before.


Inventor:

His readymade AOE items are pretty strong, but with the 1 second disable I don't see how you could use the full duration of the net, even molotov doesn't start instantly dealing damage to trolls. You really need luck to deal the full damage to anyone and then your charges are pretty limited.

I suggested that trolls can catch fire with some similiar effect to "Scare the Living" with torches, the problem is that this would just make the molotovs even more potent if instead you'd add the DOT.

His long range is limited to 5 shots with a long cool down or close range with flame thrower, but its powerhit again, so it's effectiveness is realy more depending on the enemies armor.

The amount of resouces needed by Inventor is acceptable 3 main buildings and forge, to be really effective he needs oil anyway and that isn't accessablein high amounts during early game. Especially if you are not playing 1on1.

Gladinas 1 second interupt was made to counteract the WC3 mechanics which prevented you from dealing any damage with AOE attacks but IMO it was done some balancing to Inventor too.
EDIT: Is there a 1 second deselect on Molotovs - I think not - maybe that should be added for balance, net + molotov + poison gas still is effective then but not impossible to get out of.


All in all I have to say that I find all classes well balanced, especially since you have to (/can) use different equipment vs trolls than vs beats. Hunter is still the class that has the highes advantage due his hawk - but that's why you have watch towers placed in blind spots (behind treelines) - The only problem there is that towers granted view to an enemy when they attack. But that is still better than not seeing that hawk watching you behind that treeline.

Jungle Trolls is not just rush up your build and run straight into your enemy, you need some finess too - this is what makes the hunter so strong - you'd just die if you run with him into an enemy camp. DotA has completly different game mechanics and tbh, copared to JTR you have a full team of seasoned developers. Gadina is making this as a hobby and we are thankful for him supporting this map. In a later post I suggested a ways JTR could go for a more competitive gameplay, but that is still Gadinas decision. Speaking of competiton, JTR is competitive enough, Gadina has changed the gameplay ALOT as you can see in the changelog, but there's a point where you have to really work on bugs that affect the game.

P.S.: I ve used a army of bunnies and rats once (24(!)) to disable all enemy defense and give me enough time to pick them of while they were trying to get through all those units. It was during night so without a lightsouce they didnt have much chance to find them all in their base or even me either.
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PostSubject: Life after death as a ginger kid   March 16th 2012, 21:59

Hm, that spirit animal is not a bad idea. You just have to consider that all old events of permanent death have to still take effect (units and structures)

But what about giving the player a different kind of ghost/zombie, that can become stronger and level up?
Has anyone seen the new "The River" horror series?
I have 4 different supernatural beings in mind:

- A ZOMBIE! Like the rotten troll and the Voodoo beast very slow but needs to consume raw meat (or it should gain XP for every hit/kill) to level up and become stronger. Animals killed by the zombie become their rotten counterparts. Additionally like gator it should be able to walk through water.
- A supernatural aparition siliar to ghost with 800 radius sight and truesight. It should be much like a poltergeist, feeding off the mana of its victims and gaining experience through that. It abilities should be something like drain mana on area as passive effect, zap ( short stun ad slow drain), Scare the living and maybe the possesion I suggested earlier. Only difference should be that it is damageable by iron and spells.
- A VAMPIRE! or LICH! (Shaman) Out for blood at night, with a vampiric attack. It should be normally stron but swift, to make trolls think twice before leaving the base at night. Of course thwe vampire has to hide during day or it will take damage from the sun (The home status on hunters tent should already use most of the neccessary framework for triggers,also as granting invsibility while near the liar).XP should be gained through kills.
- A (Alien) Shapeshifter! A wierd looking organizm that can consume its prey and shift into it. The organism starts out as small blob able to consume tiny animals (level 1). With inceasing level it should be able to shift into the counterparts of these animals (Shifting requires the shifter being one level above the target), this could be a small skill menu with up to 3 spells. There should be 2 abilities with which it can deal damage. One is engulfing the target (high damage to smaller targets (level below shapeshifters level)) or just grappling the target (if the level is higher or equivalent). Upon engulfing the shapeshifter should be able to memorize the creature and add it as the unit he can shift into. If it can only grapple the target, Its should be able to lay eggs, which are a minor dot and spawn into 1-3 small blob units, these units can either be used then to fight a stronger enemy (bear, troll) or be consumed for a small extra XP (engulf again).

Yes, I know these suggestions are similiar to "Who is the alien" and "Werewolf", but that brings me to another idea I'll post right under this one.
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PostSubject: OPEN GAME mode.   March 16th 2012, 22:01

OPEN GAME mode.

This one is like FFA and would enable gameplays in the way of Werewolf/Who is the Alien or a open game with tribe politics. All trolls start out just as normal with the only difference that they are neutral allies and with no shared sight. All common buildings are also a neutral party without sight. The only buildings that should stay with the player are Totem, (personal) storage box, tent, towers, torches, Totem of Horror and units.
The structure of the tribes is open to arrangements, like 6 vs 6 or all together vs one hostile. It's discussable if it is really neccesary to add ally and unally options for the neutral allies and enemies, but with the high amount of communication a system siliar to Parasite and Metastsis would be useful. Since nearly all effects work on neutrals as on enemies (revival, spells, etc.) only traps would have to be affecting neutrlas too, while towers still can be used manually.

I did not go into lengths with detailing everything but i guess most of you get what i am trying to suggest.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 17th 2012, 01:18

A.Dominion's original purpose with Shaman was to make him a troll using utility as his strength I believe. I do not see any utility in lightning spam.
Generally the troll classes are meant to live up to their standards. So far, only the Inventor does and somehow the Hunter. (Crazy base defender. Don't try entering my base when I am Inventor.)

Oh, and let me answer the 100 damage on Hawk.

Swoop always has a 2 second stun.

Swoop damage goes like this:

20/40/60/80

Base hit points shred ability:

40/60/80/100
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 18th 2012, 09:29

I got this idea of making a topic in the forum for arranging future games.The date and time of the game displayed on the subtopic,and people who think they can join at that time should write there.
Get the idea? Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 18th 2012, 13:03

This isn't a really big thing. But I was wondering if you could rename

Thunder club's bone smash to Thunder smash?

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PostSubject: VILLAGER   March 18th 2012, 21:14

VILLAGER

I just had the thought that a unspecialized class as troll would be interesting, able to use all classes lower abilities and items.
This class would be a mere survival/support class with a high adaptability.

He should be able to use some abilities of the other classes like extract seed, craft basic weapons and bow & arrows. I am unsure about if he should be able to craft forge, cauldron and pet's den out of the inventory.

Items should be equipable as far up to level 2 weapons and but only level 1 armors or level 3 like rotten troll.
The main goal is to make him benefit from good teamplay and to encourage it.
So he must be able to use minor class restricted items (USE! not craft) like:

Inventors grenades (maybe also the other explosives)
Hunters traps.
Ranged weapons restricted to bow, shotgun/gun and blowgun.
Villager should be dependant on the classes to create ammo, but be able to load the ammunition.
And maybe minor spell books.
Additionally he could get a pet, restricting the pet with level 2 as maximum, but balancing the hawk advantage hunter and shamans have.

My problem is that the villager is close to the inventor and that some ideas are actually something that would be more in the area of the inventor – like creating forge, kits for armor upgrades of structures.

Stats:
HP 220 MP 200 MS 210 Str 15 Int 15 Agi 15

Dmg 12 - 17 Armor 0 Str +1 Int +1 Agi +1 /level

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PostSubject: Some minor suggestions.   March 19th 2012, 15:52

Some minor suggestions.

Make storage boxes packable and lower their HP a bit maybe 20-50. I 'd like to see the same for tent and firekits making it possible to destroy or automatically unpack with 5-10 hits just like you'd cut trees with axes. Since you deal full damage to trees it is easier to cut them than to destroy small buildings.

Add 1 second deselect to molotov cocktails too.

Fortification kits (stone, wood, tinder) adding some armor to buildings (armor upgrade for the structure from level 0 to 1) – usable by inventor only. Making them „Fortified X“

Add net to hunters class crafting page.

Disable saving and make it only available by command. I had some enemy team of trolls abusing that to drop people out of the game. After 90 minutes of gameplay the saving time is hideous(!) 3-6 minutes and unmanageable for people with a slow pc.
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PostSubject: Some gameplay suggestions (just some thoughts):   March 22nd 2012, 04:07

Some gameplay suggestions (just some thoughts):

Increase the time for day and night circle 10 - 15 minutes day and 10 – 15 minutes night.
Add dawn and dusk ~ 5 minutes no external heat gain or loss except weather effects.
Decrease sight radius for all classes DRASTICALLY during night. About 400 for easy mode, 200 for normal and 50 for hard. Ofcourse pets have to be adjusted too.
This is a stong change in the gameplay, making lightsouces/vision a important part of the game, as far as I understand it's not that easy to add as an additional mode since alot of thing would have to be rebalanced.

Since the amount of poisonous animals has been increased in the current versions, at least what i expierienced and you constantly bump into them inclusive alligators, it seems to be justified to decrease the acquisition range. Atm most of the reptiles CAN'T be outrun in early and mid game which is very tedious always losing a big chunk much of health – judging from the version notes that will be fixed.
There are two points which seem to stick with the decreaed acquisition range and maybe agression.
Snakes and spiders only hunt/ lay out traps for suitable prey, normally they only attack bigger animals at that size if they are threatened or cornered. I'd suggest lowering the acquisiton range to meele for that level, removing the sleep state during night and adding invisibility during day to make it more realistic in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 22nd 2012, 08:59

Stockage Barrels are the wooden equivalent of the Stone Wall. 200 life seems okay.
Tents have 100-150 life - a tree has 200.
I'll think about the other things Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 22nd 2012, 17:24

Ok, but aren't Fire kit (200) , stockage box (200) , tent, cauldron (150) and forge (150) structures and only getting 33% damage while trees get pure damage from axes?
So these wood structures have respectively 450-600 HP if attacked by axe and anything else than a blunt weapon or fire/explosive.
Compared to normal buildings (300) they are only 33%/50% less durable. Also the fire kit has 50 HP more than the oil structures.

I understand that stockage boxes have been the poor man's (inventor's) version of a wall, but that is my point, they are a small version of a wall with a save inventory. Anyone trying to rob the enemy has alot of beating to do or has to have a blunt weapon dealing powerhits. It's just a thought about the gameplay, not a neccesary balance.

Siege Tower:
The Siege Tower is not used very often, either because it's too complex or as in my view to weak as a structure.
What if the Siege tower could get upgraded like the Watch Towers?
Only difference is that it loses 20-25% movement speed every level.

Siege Towers can't hold the Chainsaw?
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 22nd 2012, 17:51

You're right about the barrels and tents. Changing them.

The chainsaw... It maybe created a bug and that is why I made towers unable to use it, can't remember.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 22nd 2012, 19:08

Honestly, I never came around really using chainsaw due the high amount of fuel you need. I just remembered that I tried to pput it inside a Siege Tower a year ago or more and it didn't work.

How do you feel about letting them have only 2 states Empty and normal with 10-20 charges. And instead of giving the effects upon attack add an usable powerattack upon left click. Attacking trees should only be possible with the power attack then.
This way the chainsaw does not run empty unintended (real chainsaws use a facture of the respective amount in JTR).

Btw, seeing that the suggestions and bug reports getting bigger and bigger, I ll try to add three short lists with suggestions topic, date and source to the wikias forum when i get around it. So it's easier to keep track of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 24th 2012, 19:06

Just cross read the post about why dual wield axes cant carry more skills, which got me to an idea.

How about removing the 100 atkspeed bonus from the dualwield and letting the warrior equip 2 weapons of the same type without merging them first.
Technically he is using only 1 weapons but wearing 2 weapons atm.
The warror can then trigger the dual wield ( either by a specific skill- no place left i guess OR) by using the change stance. This way he can merge the 2 weapons into 1 pair of dual wields. This would be actually like "crafting 2 axes/clubs of the same type into 1 item which triggers 100% atkspeed bonus on the troll, adding a dualwield status to him.
Ofcourse this status has to be removed as soon he uses the special attack/ drops them or dies.

I hope I was able to give you a new idea about that.

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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 24th 2012, 19:17

This is a good approach (if I understand it right), but... Players would never normally come to the idea that they need to use some ability to merge their weapons. And unmerged weapons (as it was in some older versions) means that criticals overlap - you cannot have 2 crits at the same time, even though the game shows their animation (the number of the crit damage). This is why A.Dominion changed this and made the system for merging weapons.
At that moment we thought that a 100% attack speed bonus is already a great advantage that is totally worth sacrificing the active use.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 24th 2012, 19:47

How about adding the same chance of the enemy dropping an item to the leap ability of warrior? Just like the ability hunter's stone traps have.
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