Jungle Trolls Reborn

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mohamed_joker_
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   August 8th 2011, 16:55

Hello everybody
I've just got an awesome idea
the idea is to simply add a new animal , what is it ? A chicken !
why chickens ? because they will be a simple and easy source of feathers and food that will help shamans and hunters greatly and maybe inventors if they want to make lighting clubs and fiery axes Smile
Lvl 1 = chicklet
Lvl 2 = chicken
Lvl 3 = Fat chicken
I really hope you will like my suggestion Smile
Thanks for reading cheers
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HunDoSlavus
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   August 15th 2011, 20:33

mohamed_joker_ wrote:
Hello everybody
I've just got an awesome idea
the idea is to simply add a new animal , what is it ? A chicken !
why chickens ? because they will be a simple and easy source of feathers and food that will help shamans and hunters greatly and maybe inventors if they want to make lighting clubs and fiery axes Smile
Lvl 1 = chicklet
Lvl 2 = chicken
Lvl 3 = Fat chicken
I really hope you will like my suggestion Smile
Thanks for reading cheers

Do chickens exist in jungles? I'd ask the same question about wolves and bears and alot more but...WC3 has limited core models and adding customs would just make the map bigger.
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ElloElloEllo
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PostSubject: Blink/Teleport -redo   August 21st 2011, 11:51

Hey,
just came across the thought that it would spice up the game a bit if blink/teleport would not just be cast on self, but could be used to move teammates and enemy trolls.
Personaly IMO you should be able to select 1 target and then the destination.
I have seen some working spells, but all had one or the other limitation (teleport on area, blink just mirrored over a fixed point, etc.), so I am not even sure if you can modify a spell like that.

And yes, before you start crying about it, you ll have to do 1 click more to blink....
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Ragtog
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   August 22nd 2011, 13:10

I suggest that you change the way the Trolls and the Old Troll talks, Trolls don't really use the letter Z at the end of words, Thats not Troll-Like and it quite irritates me. Also, the names of the trolls. You should come up with something more original then just using some words then putting an apostrophe in the middle of them, That doesn't make it a Troll Name. A Good name for a troll would be Taz'Jin, Rai'Jah, Jin'do. Zin'sora and so on. I'd appreciate if you'd make that happen.

Another thing that annoys me is the glow on Warrior's Hands while in Berserker Stance, Please remove that, but if you can't, i'll understand that world editor has no other skill that enhances unit's strength without the hand glow.

Also, There could be an awesome spell that allows you to push an Enemy Troll or an Animal/Beast away a few feet away from you, though it should have 30-60 second cooldown. Some more Voodoo would surely spice up the game. When fighting another tribe, once a Rival Troll is killed, you can take his head and craft it into an Enchantment that would help in Battle and Enhance your chance of Success like Voodoo Masks.

Just a simple improvement how to keep of watch of the area around your camp would be, similair to Sensor Trap - Sentry Wards, made out of Wood, Tinder and a Mana stone. Very simple.


Last edited by Ragtog on August 22nd 2011, 18:50; edited 3 times in total
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Ragtog
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   August 22nd 2011, 13:42

ElloElloEllo wrote:
Hey,
just came across the thought that it would spice up the game a bit if blink/teleport would not just be cast on self, but could be used to move teammates and enemy trolls.
Personaly IMO you should be able to select 1 target and then the destination.
I have seen some working spells, but all had one or the other limitation (teleport on area, blink just mirrored over a fixed point, etc.), so I am not even sure if you can modify a spell like that.

And yes, before you start crying about it, you ll have to do 1 click more to blink....

If your idea gets into the game (I Really Hope So), There should be an addition that the spell fails and the blink teleports the Caster or the Target elsewhere, or Even the Caster accidentally teleports an Animal to the Target or Himself. The chances of this failure occuring could be around 5%
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JungleRat
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   August 26th 2011, 06:41

Here are some suggestions:

Resources:

Fungi[Mushrooms and Molds]
-New Plant Life.
-Can either be Poisonous or Healthy.
-Only the Jungle Hermit Knows every type of mushroom.

Oils
-Can be used for cooking.
-Different types of oils can have different types of effects.

Buildings:
Troll Tree House
-A structure that can hold Trolls and automatically camouflage during night time.
-Blow Gun can be crafted here.

Aviary
-Can train captured birds to patrol and survey the surrounding area.

Hunter's Den
-A camouflaged structure and can store hunters and hunter items only.
-A place where hunters learn to concoct noxious toxins and poisons.

Weapons:
Blow Gun[Hunters Only]
-A simple weapon that shoots ammo called "darts".
-Darts can be made from wood in Troll Tree House.
-Darts can be envenomed.

Sling[Warriors and Hunters only]
-A rudimentary weapon which can be crafted in the early game.
-Uses pebbles as ammunition.
-Pebbles can be obtained through basic crafting.

NPC's:
Jungle Hermit
-A very wise old orc that was shipwrecked in an island nearby and managed to get to troll island.
-The Jungle Hermit's Hut can provide different types of ingame items and also provides invaluable plant info.
-Can be found in the South Eastern part of the map.

Human Survival Expert
-A very courageous and skillful human who travels from place to place.
-Gives Quest and rewards with Luxury Items.

Troll Specialty:
Warrior
-Beastial Strength
+Armor
+Damage
+HP
- Attack Speed
- Move Speed
Hunter
-Cunning Instincts
+Move Speed
+Attack Speed
+Dodge/Evasion
- Armor
- HP
Inventor
-Intellectual Clarity
+Area Sight
+Move Speed
+Magic and Spell Resistance
- HP
- Damage
Shaman
-Gaia's Blessing
+HP/Mana Regen.
+Move Speed
+Area Sight[During Night]
- HP
- Mana
- Armor
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Unreal
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   August 26th 2011, 22:18

JungleRat wrote:

Weapons:
Blow Gun[Hunters Only]
-A simple weapon that shoots ammo called "darts".
-Darts can be made from wood in Troll Tree House.
-Darts can be envenomed.

I like this idea but it should be used by hunters and shamans.
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HunDoSlavus
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   August 29th 2011, 15:29

Ragtog wrote:

Just a simple improvement how to keep of watch of the area around your camp would be, similair to Sensor Trap - Sentry Wards, made out of Wood, Tinder and a Mana stone. Very simple.

Mana stones are quite costy though. Perhaps a new resource item could be added? Mana fragment?
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vasak93
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   September 19th 2011, 02:19

gadina_prokleta wrote:
Things you would like to see in game.
When Trolls walk or run they left tracks ( footprints) on ground (only not water)and it last for 15sec before it dissappear. Instead of selling the Soul map sell the Nature eyes (which will show ur enemies troll's track on the map for a certain amount of time)
OR
At first Tracks show if the trolls use 2 or more slots to carry items but if they have some kind of upgrade ( boots or something) or maybe every 2 lvs they can carry 1 more item( use another slot) without showing tracks
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alelil
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   November 21st 2011, 00:56

my suggestion:
-add a mode/command , to make human invade the jungle and in order to repel invasion maybe all tribe can make an alliance
-the human invasion can start at the gate in the ride sight of map, or maybe from the river with a ship
-human can cut tress and make tower and HQ ( it must be destroyed to repel the invasion )
-make some place as potential human base and use the triger to check iof the place availble , so the base is random in every game
-if the troll dont defeat the invader, they will get reinforcement every 2-3 days, and start to hunt down the trollls maybe
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gadina_prokleta
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   November 22nd 2011, 14:39

Heh, I'm planning to do this since a long, long time. Well, if this version appears to be stable and if it is still played, I may work on the Human Invasion mod.
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HunDoSlavus
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   February 10th 2012, 18:40

The game could use some balancing. This post will be edited to my suggestions of balancing:

Version 4.6

- Lower all minor stun durations from thrown axes, bows and alike by 0.1 second (A game isn't balanced with so many possibilities to do minor stuns enough to stunlock persons.)

- Shaman only able to carry one Arcanum/spell book at a time. (This may allow potential team composition of 2 shamans carrying two different arcanums, instead of having 1 shaman hexing one troll and nuking him to the ground with Arcanum of Darkness.

- Book of Resurrection should only be useable by Shamans.

- Increase Jungle bird mana by 50 at all ranks (Their lifetime duration isn't that high)

- Increase base movement speed of Warrior (The 3 other classes can easily kite a warrior around because of his 0 speed per level, while the Hunter has 2 per level, Shaman and Inventor 1. Runnin' paws will not be enough.

______________________________________

Suggestions for JTR:

Version 4.7:



- Disallow javelins & throwing axes to be carried along with a weapon & bow, weapon & shield or dual wields.

- Change the way a Sabretooth prowls so it does not randomly prowl around when unneccesary.

-Increase Inventor's start attributes to 15 from 13 so he has as many attributes distributed as the other classes.

- Turn experience books into items that can be sold.

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ElloElloEllo
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PostSubject: Herbs   March 4th 2012, 12:03

I am a bit unhappy with the lengths you have to go through to get the herbs for brewing and spellbooks, because they are pretty much underused with the current versions.
I have to admit I was unhappy with the earlier (gold)farming too Embarassed , where you could stack 12 plants and just clickfarm them next to your merchant or just potion buff out.

So I have some suggestions to make them more usable but still keep them nonabusable.

Increase the spawn ratio of plants drastically, it is still a jungle. And let the plants petals change into seeds over 1 day and let the seeds disappear over 2 days by removing them. I am not sure about how much the additional triggers will slow the maps cycles but if possible a plant should spawn at the location the seed was removed. I guess half your work is already done with the triggers you use for meat and rotten meat (ofc there are alot of new variables to add), but I can't estimate how much workload it is for the cycles.

The last system was more realistic in my opinon, since with most plants you keep the roots in the earth and harvest them again next season. Making them click-to-harvest again but with casting time and only if the troll is near it would be my suggestion. I know plants are a neutral party but if it is possible to do it the same way as I suggestion for buildings (bug reports) and leaving the cycle spawned plants as neutral party. If plants are killed instead of harvested , i.e. by an enemy, you still could let them just drop seeds as in the current version.

Another suggestion is removing the oil requirement for cauldron, since it is actually just a bowl over an open fire. Instead change the recipe to bronze, tinder, wood. This would reduce the amount of needed oil to one for the forge speeding up the setup time for all structures but move the priority the neccisity of a balanced base. I am not sure how other people comprehend the low chance for two units of oil for both, forge and cauldron, during the first two days, but in my opinion this would balance the early gameplay for all tribes.

Also letting the voodoo merchant sell plants by default would make the nerfed Shaman more rounded during the early/mid game. i am not sure here if this wouldn't collide with an increased spawn ratio of herbs then.

And I have to bring up the dying animals instead of just disappearing ones again. Using a 30-40 dps DOT instead of removing them, withering with their last breath and then dropping the resouces and/or rotten meat would be great.
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ElloElloEllo
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PostSubject: Posession!!!!   March 4th 2012, 13:16

Just had a great idea (IMO), ghosts should be able to posses a troll when he is switched into Shaman's Ghost Form for a brief period of time. About 8 seconds should be perfect, enough to have the potential to turn the tide of a battle your team is losing but not to long to do any overly serious damage to the enemy. That is about 4-7 seconds of control over an enemy as soon he's out of Ghost Form again or 0-7 if scriptures were used, depending on the players timing.

Maybe, it could be made possible to bind a soul to a rotten troll for some minutes, prolonging the time until he is forced to revive.

Of course all items inside the ghosts inventory should be dropped to the ground if he posses an enemy or rotten troll.
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gadina_prokleta
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 4th 2012, 15:02

ElloElloEllo, I'm in doubt about those ideas.
I also would want to increase the count of plants and the doodads too, making the map more beautiful and more Jungle-like. But... this is still Warcraft, or my skill is not enough - anyway, if I increase doodads or units too much, the game becomes slow, heavy and generally unplayable :/
And I already increased the general unit count by 10%, because people were complaining that animals die out too fast.

About speeding up the tribes by removing the oil requirement for the Cauldron and the shaman by adding herbs to the merchants - I might do it, but I need some more general solution for speeding up the gameplay...
Btw, what about the Voodoo Merchant in the center selling herb seeds?

If dying of age animals drop any resources, in 10 days the Jungle would be full of rotten remains... But you are right that they should at least lose some health. What if I give them negative regeneration so at the moment their mana is empty and they are about to die, their health would be at 50%?

About the possession - the idea is really great, but I'm afraid even to think about how would I make it work. And (almost) the same result could be accomplished by casting Double on the enemy (yeah, I know it's not the same).
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HunDoSlavus
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 5th 2012, 13:12

I suggest the next part of balancing should take place on the Hunter.

- Reduce Hawk's total vision by about 150-300
- Reduce Bow's range from 900 to 825
- Reduce Longbow's range from 1050 to 1000 (Did I get the range wrong?)

Generally, a hunter can simply move around with his hawk and shoot players to death throughout the jungle with Tarantula envenomed arrows. This is the solution how. An Inventor is not allowed.
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ElloElloEllo
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PostSubject: Spawnrate   March 6th 2012, 18:28

Hey Gadina,
spawn rate and the map seem pretty stable at the moment, only problem still is those rabbits and racoons disappearing withing the first 6 days. I have played the Russian (at least I think so) map "Trolls 0.7.9" today, sadly at the current state its nearly unplayable after some days. It's getting just too laggy with the amount of units and items spawned by dead creatures. So I can understand you are not too eager to increase the count of units on the map in general. As I said it's just a suggestion, but the center Voodoo Merchant (or the Merchant Building by default) selling herbs would be a try worth testing over the next versions.

I am not sure which maps, but possesion ( changing the owner of a unit ) has been already done in some custom maps. There's also a function with most Jass cheatpacks to change the owner of a unit by command, you might want to look into those.

About the Memorials and achivements, it would be great to see what achievements you can get and what advantages they give before you have them. Also why not make the secondary achivements a bit more useful for the player by raising stats with them, i.e. Mining giving +2 armor per level, fishing +3 agility, merchant +3 intelligence per level.

It would be nice if petrified wood could be used for common weapons too, making them a little bit better than the version with common wood.

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ElloElloEllo
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PostSubject: ROLLBACK Jungle Quest   March 10th 2012, 00:01

Sorry to sound like a broken recod but I have to push this suggestion again^^

Please add a possibility to reset the animals after a long period of time (14+days) this would make it possible to play really epic battles fully equiped bases without running short on animal supplies. Just remove the ones which are not elder and run the initial spawn again.

I don't want to waste space in this thread since i already outlined my idea in this post [url=ungletrolls.forum777.com/t2p30-suggestions]Return to Eden(Quest)[/url] . It's the second post from BOTTOM.
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HunDoSlavus
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 10th 2012, 16:37

Thank you for changing some things in 5.0 suggested by me. I did not really expect Big Jungle bird's mana to go up by 100 though. I only suggested 50, but I guess it's ok.

Currently I can't think of anything else, but I still think Inventor starting stats need to go up to 15.

Also. Gadina, do you have any plans about Frolls? XD
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stjerry
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 12th 2012, 22:53

Hello guys.

JTR is a competitve online game so balance is a very important issue.

The tactic of net->molotov->poison gas is just imba. I don't mind that molotov does huge ammount of damage, but staying trapped in net for so long - that's rediculous (that makes net a must have item for all trolls)! Any warrior is easily countered by inventor with net and any other class can stop war with net for good. You can dodge molotovs and poison gas by running in the right time but staying in net for so long you just can't do a thing. Warrior becomes totally useless character in fight.

Therefore could you consider these suggestions:

- Nerf net disable time for trolls to 1-2 sec and increase it's duration on animals
- Let warrior get out off trap and other disables while changing state to berseker so he wouldn't be so easily countered
- Maybe add some items like hood or armor enchant that would increase magic and explosives damage resistancecuz armor isn't really that much usefull unless you tank bosses or go trolls 1v1 or against chainsaw.
- Nerf disable time of shaman's blow pipe from 4 to 2 sec (it is allready reducing speed by poisoning so 4 sec disable is just a death sentende)
- Change recepy for shamans blow pipe (you can't get antilope horns in early and mid game - you have to wait for late game when antilops would grow). For example it could be crafted with 4 bones and crab chittin making it more usefull item.
- Horn of warrior (made from antelope horns) is rather useless item that is not worth an inventory slot(+4 damage is so low). Maybe you could rework it's effect to increase movement and attack speed and boost some hp on usage (or add a debuff of disables on usage at least)
- add a chance of maim to hunter's bow (with antelope horns for example) that would slow movement speed of atacked unit so he could escape or chase other trolls
- make hunter's tent invisible for other trolls cuz it is easily spoted by other players

So please consider these suggestions. Meanwhile I would make new requests on iccup so that they would update tha map faster to latest version. They allready made it to 4.7 so it's a matter of time ^_^.

Thanks
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gadina_prokleta
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 12th 2012, 23:16

stjerry, I'll make some small changes considering the net and sarbacane.

About warrior getting out a trap more quickly - I have no idea how I might do it, but furthermore, I think it isn't needed. The only real disadvantage of the warrior is his low speed, so if the enemy makes use of it, it is okay.
Something more - in last version many stuns and microstuns have been removed, and this change suits the warrior best.

The battle horn is useful maybe only if you convince your fellows hunter and shaman to share control over their pets, so you could be a troll commander and army leader - lately they told me about a strategy when the warrior wears only the horn, armors, shield and potions - the ultimate leader who never dies and gives bonuses to his army Smile
But I'm accepting better ideas about that item. It might give some better bonus only for the warrior though.

There aren't good defenses against explosives and there isn't no WC3 mechanics I could use to create them, sorry. But well, most of the explosives are quite expensive and they have their usage weaknesses (for example tossing a grenade or rockets stops the caster unit in place for 0.5-1 sec after the cast; it is made for techincal reasons, but irt is still a disadvantage).

Antelope horns might be found in early game, since there is a chance on a spawn location to appear an antelope with almost full energy, so it could become a Stag in the same day.

Hunter doesn't need more stuns or slows - he is already the best runner in the game + he has stealth. Hunter's tents are already invisible, but if they get into enemy's way, he'll discover them by the Stumble Upon ability.


HunDoSlavus, do frolls appear? I had a report about quest completed and no frolls coming up. Is it true?
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HunDoSlavus
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 13th 2012, 10:54

You did not know? You can fish them up in the northern swamps where Comodo resides!

I often do froll fishermon camps.

i just had a friend asking if you had any plans for them.
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gadina_prokleta
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 13th 2012, 11:55

Oh, I know they are fishable. We made this together with A.Dominion Smile
But i have something bigger in mind for an expansion with other races... We'll see if I could do it some day.
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ElloElloEllo
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PostSubject: Some small suggestions for further versions   March 13th 2012, 16:15

There's a problem now with Shamans spellbooks Malaria and Plague, since you can now get diseases from animals two they are definetly not usable for close combat^^

Anyway thinking about a possible replacement I came up with a blinding(flash) spell and "Mass Blindness" as upgraded version using oil instead of poison. The effects would be giving the enemy (Animal, Beast or Troll) 50% miss chance for 10 seconds with a CD of 15-20 seconds. But there's actually no reason to change Malaria and Plague, just wanted to share that thought.

TORCHES!
It would be great if they could be more useful as sole inventory item. Either as non restricted item giving not only vison at night but also generating some minor heat (+1-2 per cycle) and scaring animals at a small (250) radius.
Or they could be proper blunt weapons (level 1) (wood, cloth or 2-3 tinder, oil) as general recipe with a small chance to do 1.5 damage and set the enemy on fire (50 over 5 seconds) and working like "Scare the Living".

Btw. I was wondering why rain affects the growth and health of herbs, but only affects the health of berry bushes. Wouldnt it be more realistic if the bushes spawn 1 berry everytime they reach 10, 15 or 20 mana instead of periodically every day even through 5 days of hardest winter?
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gadina_prokleta
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions   March 13th 2012, 16:57

Shaman is rarely entering close combat anyway Wink

Hmmm, I'll think about the torches. Maybe hitting a beast while holding a torch could have a chance to scare it. It could even be some anti-beastmaster tactics!

Don't worry about the berries, they actually are affected by rain too. Their mana gets increased every time it rains Wink
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